@MentORPHEUS @MentORPHEUS

I don't know who "The Libs" are in your mind, but there is a not insignificant contingent that moralise the positions of illegals, asylum seekers and economic migrants. This contingent is very much "refugees welcome at all costs".

This is the classic Conservative strawman version of the position "The Libs" ACTUALLY hold and act upon. What conservatives call "The Libs" as if they are one unified bloc, actually consists of different factions that don't interact much between themselves. Many factions that aid and abet them aren't liberals at all.

True ideological Leftists who see immigrants as victims and pawns in a greater class struggle; these more often than not don't physically interact with immigrants at all.

Rank and file left leaning people who aren't highly politicized or up on ideological theory and writings, but intuitively feel compassion for those who are poor, disadvantaged, abused, exploited, etc.

Activists who fit more often into the second category than the first above, who are hands-on directly helping immigrants with basic needs like food, shelter, medical, legal needs

Clergy genuinely walking the walk of Jesus, offering direct food aid and spiritual comfort to all needy comers without qualifying them by categories like immigration status. These tend to lean conservative on issues like abortion and sexual mores, making lumping them in with "The Libs" particularly ridiculous. Contrast these with the Megachurch class of preachers, who court and pander to a select congregation of big-money conservatives, and would throw out on the street any lowly beggar who sullied their multimillion dollar church by darkening its door looking for a bite to eat

The above categories act more reactive to "immigrants who are already here;" the categories below are the ones with financial incentives to proactively (but very discreetly and indirectly) "keep immigrants coming in to America at all costs."

Small businessmen who employ "illegals" despite often identifying strongly conservative themselves. Construction, sole proprietor restaurant and hotel, and smaller farmers

Big businessmen who employ "illegals" on a large scale, often laundering this reality through third party independent staffing agencies for an illusion of separation from this. Picture the expensive suit wearing, cigar puffing President in his quiet glassed off office, looking down over his factory of dirt-poor workers toiling away. The character Veruca Salt and her Father in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were an example of this trope

Even bigger businessmen with high profile connections to politics who employ lots of immigrants both legal and illegal WHILE taking a loudly public position stoking anti-immigrant sentiments in the masses "below" them, while having their hands on the hands that hold the levers of power. One contemporary example, Elon Musk letting hundreds of high paid American workers go from his Tesla operations while pushing the government to expand the H1B tech worker visa program

Mainstream top level politicians, be they Democrats who pay lip service to "Immigrant rights" yet keep agencies like ICE, DHS, and Border Patrol mostly intact during their administrations, or Republicans who pay lip service to "Sealed Borders" yet keep policies like H1B active beyond "critical national security" needs and have lots of patrons and donors whose wealth depends on large workforces of "illegal" workers

You said it was rapidly debunkable, but there’s nothing rapid about this!

As detailed above, big complex federal issues can't get reduced to a snippy one-liner tweet and be useful toward public policy.

What I said was rapidly debunkable, was Elon's claim of "$59 million spent putting illegals up in luxury hotels."

Yes, so for the third time, debunk it!

(Apologies for any notification spam, working through some formatting issues)

@Stigma

I don't know who "The Libs" are in your mind, but there is a not insignificant contingent that moralise the positions of illegals, asylum seekers and economic migrants. This contingent is very much "refugees welcome at all costs".

This is the classic Conservative strawman version of the position "The Libs" ACTUALLY hold and act upon. What conservatives call "The Libs" as if they are one unified bloc, actually consists of different factions that don't interact much between themselves. Many factions that aid and abet them aren't liberals at all.

• True ideological Leftists who see immigrants as victims and pawns in a greater class struggle; these more often than not don't physically interact with immigrants at all.
• Rank and file left leaning people who aren't highly politicized or up on ideological theory and writings, but intuitively feel compassion for those who are poor, disadvantaged, abused, exploited, etc.
• Activists who fit more often into the second category than the first above, who are hands-on directly helping immigrants with basic needs like food, shelter, medical, legal needs
• Clergy genuinely walking the walk of Jesus, offering direct food aid and spiritual comfort to all needy comers without qualifying them by categories like immigration status. These tend to lean conservative on issues like abortion and sexual mores, making lumping them in with "The Libs" particularly ridiculous. Contrast these with the Megachurch class of preachers, who court and pander to a select congregation of big-money conservatives, and would throw out on the street any lowly beggar who sullied their multimillion dollar church by darkening its door looking for a bite to eat

The above categories act more reactive to "immigrants who are already here;" the categories below are the ones with financial incentives to proactively (but very discreetly and indirectly) "keep immigrants coming in to America at all costs."

• Small businessmen who employ "illegals" despite often identifying strongly conservative themselves. Construction, sole proprietor restaurant and hotel, and smaller farmers
• Big businessmen who employ "illegals" on a large scale, often laundering this reality through third party independent staffing agencies for an illusion of separation from this. Picture the expensive suit wearing, cigar puffing President in his quiet glassed off office, looking down over his factory of dirt-poor workers toiling away. The character Veruca Salt and her Father in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were an example of this trope
• Even bigger businessmen with high profile connections to politics who employ lots of immigrants both legal and illegal WHILE taking a loudly public position stoking anti-immigrant sentiments in the masses "below" them, while having their hands on the hands that hold the levers of power. One contemporary example, Elon Musk letting hundreds of high paid American workers go from his Tesla operations while pushing the government to expand the H1B tech worker visa program
• Mainstream top level politicians, be they Democrats who pay lip service to "Immigrant rights" yet keep agencies like ICE, DHS, and Border Patrol mostly intact during their administrations, or Republicans who pay lip service to "Sealed Borders" yet keep policies like H1B active beyond "critical national security" needs and have lots of patrons and donors whose wealth depends on large workforces of "illegal" workers

You said it was rapidly debunkable, but there’s nothing rapid about this!

As detailed above, big complex federal issues can't get reduced to a snippy one-liner tweet and be useful toward public policy.

What I said was rapidly debunkable, was Elon's claim of "$59 million spent putting illegals up in luxury hotels." If Elon, DOGE, and Trump are REALLY sincere about saving American taxpayers money and want the buy-in of even those who aren't already all-in with their party, they wouldn't bullshit us with claims like this. Operating in sound bytes that don't hold up under scrutiny is a short term gains but fuck the big picture game.

@deeplydisturbed

And it was gay me

I LOLd at this typo

no one denies it - HIV was already by gays for years before it jumped

That HIV was "only a gay and junkie disease"... WAS the official party line denial during its early years, and among other cynical uses, was given as the reason not to bother spending money researching and fighting it. This resulted in many completely innocent people getting it through sex. Additionally, recipients of blood products such as hemophiliacs got it through their own health care coverage.

40 years later, conservatives STILL reflexively react to news that STD numbers are rising not with Maybe we need to get health care resources on this problem but The so-called victims must have brought it on themselves, and deserve neither a dime of public health money nor zero-cost concern and compassion from me!