@VintageNaginta It's like I said. Back in ye good ol' days, the gym was a supplement to life. You'd work out to look good, get better at your sport or martial art or physical job, and stay healthy. Maybe develop some discipline, too.

Today, the gym culture is to work out for the sake of working out. That's why you can say with a straight face that doing real productive physical labor as a job that will make you strong as a side effect is inferior to paying money to go to a special building and pick up and put down special heavy metal objects for the specific purpose of growing larger for its own sake.

A gym bro who works in an office cubicle literally turns his nose up at a construction worker who unloads sacks of concrete from the truck every day and says, "I squat more than you do."

Getting big is a hobby. It's a great hobby. I've got no problems with the hobby. I encourage every man on earth to get into this hobby. The strength, capabilities, and discipline you will build from this hobby is not matched by any other activity. But let's not inflate the act of growing big muscles to something more than it is. It's an amazing hobby. But growing big muscles isn't your job. It's auxiliary to your job. It's something you do to make you stronger and more disciplined for real things. It is not, itself, a real thing.

@GayLubeOil I wonder if it all didn't just kind of spiral out of hand.

Originally, the whole PUA thing was supposed to be "Here's this set of tricks you can do to get women to have sex with you. There. Now that your sexual needs are met, you can go back to doing whatever it is you're into and progressing at life, and just use these tricks to meet your sexual needs when necessary."

But suddenly, it stopped being a bag of tricks and became some kind of bizarre lifestyle. Piles of online forums. A community of guys, all of them talking about how cool this shit is, but few if any of them actually doing the shit they're talking about. Piles and piles of useless information covering up the few pieces of actually useful information. On top of it all, dozens of guys coming out of the woodwork with dollar signs in their eyes, declaring themselves gurus who can fix all of your troubles.

The manosphere changed from here's a set of tricks to help normal guys become normal guys who fuck into here's this massive community and way of life and an identity for lost boys to subscribe to and believe in.

The manosphere literally became a religion boys follow, with beliefs and priests and the whole nine yards. So it's not that surprising that an accomplished PUA charlatan priest might try to make more money being a real charlatan priest for a real religion.

@Legends_of_Men Women aren't conditioned by men. They're conditioned by women.

Women do not think "Oh no! She was slutty and now men won't marry her. I'd better change my ways and be a good girl so I don't end up like her."

Women think, "Those silly insecure men with their sex hang-ups. Now I know what to hide from them when I want to get married."

In 1920, that was harder because there wasn't anonymous sex via Tinder and not as much sex via bars in major urban areas where you'd never see the same person twice. The opportunities were less and the risks higher. You were part of a community, and other women would out you as a slut.

In 2020, not only do we have Tinder and bars in urban areas creating opportunities for sex that will not affect a woman socially, but women cover for each other. Today women will talk shit about other women who aren't slutty. 100 years ago, they were ostracizing women who were sluts.

Women being slutty is a factor of what other women encourage, not how men behave.