@deeplydisturbed Love is both a feeling and a verb. Very few people make sacrifices and care for their significant others and children purely out of a sense of moral obligation…How miserable (or perhaps, emotionally stunted?) must one be to operate like that?

All people are at least capable of doing the unthinkable— yes, your children and mine. I don’t believe you if you assert that your feelings for your children wouldn’t change if they ever did the absolute worst thing you can think of. They could do such things to others you love, or take them away from you.

Even if you still kept up with the ways you provide for them, you would see them differently. Fear, distrust, disgust, sadness, unease… such feelings would pervade your love for them. There would be cognitive dissonance: how could the wonderful person you created and loved and did your absolute best to raise turn into such a monster? You can see it on the faces of the parents of murderers, rapists, psychopaths… it’s human nature, not female nature.

As for what funshographix was referring to, both men and women have standards when it comes to who they will date, foster love for, and create a life with. The same way that most women wouldn’t love a man who lacks the assets or capabilities to provide for her and her potential children, most men won’t love women who are obese, don’t do anything but sit on their asses, would make poor mothers, have existing substance abuse issues, etc. Every person has expectations for what their partner must contribute to a relationship, and those are the conditions on which love is given.

Sure, sometimes the expectations are shallow or relatively meaningless in terms of practicality. But there is no reason to pretend that all men are saints who will take in any woman in exchange for “peace,” or that all women are devils who only care about the worldly possessions of their men. That’s irrational, black-and-white thinking.

@deeplydisturbed A while back, the limitation on elective abortion (abortion for reasons that aren’t medical in nature, such as genetic abnormalities or endangerment of the mother), was set at 21 or 22 weeks gestational age in most states, as that is the point where a fetus is developed enough to feel pain. Over 90% percent of abortions happen before 13 weeks anyway.

I think this was a satisfactory limit for most people; however, there was a big push to get abortion banned altogether (the heartbeat laws effectively do this within the states they are implemented), and that created political polarization and the ad hominem attacks on conservative people instead of rational, productive discourse on the subject.

I always disagreed with the sentiment that people who aren’t “careful enough” to prevent unwanted pregnancy should just “take responsibility” or “deal with the consequences,” as if it were simply an unpleasant punishment. Unwanted pregnancies, when carried to term, result in people, who form the next generation. The majority of women who seek to terminate their pregnancies are not in a good position to raise a child to be a well-adjusted member of society. There is adoption, of course, but separation at birth is traumatic for both the mother and infant, and children are who grow up in the system often fail to thrive, develop behavioral issues, are abused or neglected, etc.