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@adam-l I think one of the things that is not stressed too much these days is that Odysseus has to go home for the sake of his son and even his old father -who has been driven into exile in a slave's house in the hills. It is as Odysseus notes a single line -there is no support form brothers, no heir and spare situation.

As the Odyssey says, women can make clean breaks and start again well. Telemachus knows this and fears for his future. His mum holds on bravely refusing to monkey branch so that Telemachus can get to manhood and maybe get to keep his land and the throne but Telemachus knows that if she marries, she will be interested then in enriching her new husband, so she will want to give him as much as possible (so that she herself has more). Against this is the fact that hospitality customs allow the suitors to eat all Telemachus' wealth (animals in a pre money culture) until his mother does marry, so he is in a tough spot.

Odysseus misses his wife but its really his son he goes back for, to establish the next male generation in power.

Neither Odysseus or Telemachus fully trust Penelope. Odysseus makes trial of her and leaves her right out of his plans, preferring to trust his old housekeeper as the only woman in on the plot -why? because she is his property, she probably won't keep her job without him in power.

Homer is very clear about the limits of women's trust. Penelope is the best of women but she was going to go and finally monkey branch the very day he kills all the suitors.

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@Vermillion-Rx

Jesus Christ they do want the guy who cheats as long as he's hot and funnu

Yes of course. What greater proof that your man is desired by other women than if he actually fucks them?

While it's normal for a man to feel disgusted and depressed if his woman fucks another man, it's normal for a woman to feel horny if her man does it. That she "has to" leave him is westernized social programming.

It's not so long ago that it was normal for women to tolerate their man's indiscretions, as long as they were discreet.

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@SeasonedRP they normalized having an gf with a past, so "used" women no longer lose value in the mating market. This feeds into their mating algorithm, and they can now indulge in their bias towards new, exciting prospects.

In Odyssey, Ulysses has the stable Penelope at home, and takes his time taking 10 years to return, after the war ends. In the process, he spends seven of them at a dream island with a demigoddess, Calypso.

Nevertheless, he does long for his home and wife, and eventually leaves Calypso and the offered immortality for them.

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@adam-l Monogamy works for females but not with the same man. They seem to prefer serial monogamy where they go from relationship to relationship. I think they are less suited for marriage than men as they just aren't wired to be with one man forever.

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@adam-l if I read that correctly, there's a lot more nuance than in your earlier offerings.

I'll revisit this when I have a known block of time, and my reading glasses!

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@Typo-MAGAshiv

Not really.

But the issue you allude to, cognitive dissonance, is indeed a bitch. People tend to theorize and idealize their own situation. Which leaves them with no vision.

You don't need much insight to figure that monogamy didn't quite work for men. The mistress was always the best part of the traditional marriage.

The older I get, the more I realize that when truly monogamous marriages work, it's because they are a healing ritual for some deeper wounds.

I'm not really anti-monogamous, ideologically. In fact, I, like everybody, really like people who manage monogamy, and I also like the idea. Also, many people seem to manage it by just having an option, an out, even if they never exercise it. I'm more in favor of that last case than actual adultery, because of the risks involved.

Those said, the direction towards a solution of the contemporary female-centered adulterous madness is not equality in anti-adultery, but the ol' social norm of harsher judgement against female adultery, and a lighter one against the male one.

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@adam-l mental note to come back to this later. Just here for some quick, frivolous shit while waiting in line on one of my errands.

This topic is a bit deeper than I can get into during an unknown, likely short, amount of time without my reading glasses.

I will say for the moment, though, that much of your writing seems long on abstract theory and short on real-world experience.

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@adam-l This is one of the core differences between men and women. Men can fuck other women and still love their main squeeze. Women fuck other men because they're done with the old one.

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@woodsmoke

Yes, I do think that any man being "willingly" monogamous has nothing to do with morality. It's bending the knee to gynocentrism, making a virtue out of necessity. It's a virtue signaling sacrifice.

The thing is, a man can be emotionally committed to one woman, caring for her best interest, while fucking another. A woman can't do that.

The "why's" would get us into philosophy, and the transcendental nature of man (sometimes refered to as having a soul) vs the mechanistical nature of the female human organism. But I digress.

(Reposted it due to many typos)

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@adam-l

Not trying to moralize here but... you do realize it's not only possible for a man to be monogamous, but that can actually be a desirable outcome for him, yes?

I just can't help but notice what seems to be your default assumption that any man will naturally be fucking other women. If that's your jam, more power to you, but you're obviously failing to consider a pretty glaring third option here.

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