@AlexFromEurope

LTR (F34): low sex, repeated lies - I(M37) moved in and over-invested. Next moves to fix this?

Hey everyone, I’m here for your advice to turn my current situation it a one that is better for me.

TL;DR: I moved in, invested heavily, sex is scarce, and she’s lied multiple times about meeting an older “wine friend.” I don’t want to police my partner; I want honesty and desire. I’m leaning toward accepting her offer of sexual openness (I can see other people) and if that doesn't change anything (spark desire & attraction & raise my value in her mind, a bit of jealously) moving out, making myself rare (remove convenience, but be than also only available in the "good & fun" moment) or straight breakup.

Me/LTR context

2 years dating, ~1 year official LTR. I (M37) moved into her place after her (F34) roommate left. I help a lot (dog care, logistics, small money stuff, errants - to make her live easier because she had a hard time - depression ...). I’m stable/boring (behavior & fianancials ~ earn well, spend on nothing fancy - still no stingy regularly take her out to dinner) and low-drama. I have sexual needs. She says the pill kills her libido. Sex has been rare. Her past is “adventurous.” I didn’t care; if anything I wanted a partner who’s sexually open - with me. She makes a shitty day better by giving me a hug or just be there with me. (But too often in such movement the answer is "It's hot" or "I need some space")

The breaking trust (timeline)

Early this year: She floated trips to cities where past guys live (“just visiting,” “cheap Chromecast for there,” "I like to travel" etc.). After one of the trips I said the pattern felt off. She offered the phone; I checked (hesitated, then did it). I found freshly deleted messages I could recover. On that trip (with her sister) She’d arranged a “movie night” with an old fling (personal relationship - because he help her get her dog); it became dinner. Fallout: “You accused me,” “you looked through my phone.” We talked it out. I set the boundary: I don’t police you; I do require no lying.

A month ago: Said she had a work wine tasting. Sister’s comments and logistics didn’t add up (going in heals up a high mountain, midnight lift with “kids and dogs” in the car from the partner of a colleague?). I checked again (this time without asking; I didn’t want the “deleted” issue repeat). Found she’d been meeting an older guy from tastings for regular walks (when she was out walking the dog); dinner that night was with him, not work. Confronted; she confirmed. I repeated my boundary: see whoever friends thats ok; don’t lie because this makes it something you want hide from me - and than I have to assume its something bad for me.

Last week: I was at my parents helping them for the day, also sick (and she doesn't enjoy me sick and my mood). She said she was with a (female) friend and even sent the friend’s dog pic. Hours of silence despite saying she's super exited and wanted later updates on the discussions with my family. Called her once, she didn't pick up. Later message phone was on the charger, I called are then. When she finally picked up, her story and location visuals didn’t match (she said she was at the friend and they walked and she could pick up because of that, and when she wanted to show me her outfit she really liked - I picked up that she was coming from the direction of train station, and aparently she just made a large detour). I didn’t snoop this time. My read: she likely saw the older wine guy again. I assume no physical cheating; I do assume another lie. In any case I will directly tell her how I feel about this and see. But I also don't want to appear crazy and weak.

More Context

When I checked the phone A past fling texted her after a year: wanted a date. Her reply: “She is flattered." "logistics would be difficult.” I wasn’t mentioned, and it was also no clear no. To a friend she said the relationship felt “boring” (ok this was while I was injured and not exactly fun). She said multiple times I’m “not the guy she wanted, but the guy she needs.” She’s improved a lot with me (weight loss, depression better). She’s floated that I could seek sex elsewhere - she knows its important for me and doesn't want to deprive me of this because of her low sex drive because of the pill. Affection is inconsistent (“it’s hot,” “I need space” on the couch, etc.). We’re different: she likes travel and novelty; I like building and work. I want crazy sex with my partner - even though I have a hard time going out of myself with her but its something I would wish to develop with her; but she at least doesn't want to have it with me or its the pill.

My thoughts

1. I’m not trying to be her parole officer. I don’t require check-ins or permission. I expect my partner to have their own moral compass and want to trust in that; but I get frustrated when I catch lies - especially when I explicitly reassured her that she should not worry to meet her friend whoever they might be, but don't make it something shady by lying about it & make up fake cover stories.
2. I did check her phone twice (once with permission, once not). That’s on me. I’m not doing it again. But the pattern I uncovered was real: secret meets + cover stories.
3. I’m aware I’ve over-invested (moved in, dog duties, logistics). My attention clearly doesn’t create the same charge as “silver fox” wine guy and especially the fling that message her - I know he intreques her still today in ways aparently I don't. Because she only experience him in the fun moments, but not the boring every day situations.

My goals

I want to become more attractive to her and maybe stop being the convenient provider/roommate. And either get a sexual LTR that actually desires me - or stop LTR’ing someone who lies and doesn’t want sex with me.

What I’m considering

1. Move out to end the “roommate/provider” dynamic and restore distance. Keep dating her only if behavior matches words. - But I assume that she would see move out = break up.
2. Accept her offer of sexual openness while staying LTR and test if abundance + preselection reignites desire/ (even some for jealously?) - and that I'm worth more than convinience. My experience from the past - I'm just not the guy from the look & lifestyle I have that is directly attractive for woman for such arguments.
3. Hard boundary: “One more lie and I’m out.” No threats, just consequence. Then actually walk if it happens.
4. Clean breakup now. No drama, no post-mortem.
5. Demote LTR to casual (plates). Date other women. She can keep seeing “friends” honestly - no lies, no exclusivity claims.

Question:

1. Given the repeated lying + rather dead bedroom, I lean towards accepting the offer of sexual openness, even getting her involved asking for help with the profile and using her "experience"? But I'm not sure if that is really a good idea.
2. Or is move out + demote the correct first move to regain frame? Or go straight to breakup?
3. If I stay, what exact rules/consequences would you set? (“No lying” is table stakes, but how do you enforce without playing detective?)
4. And most importantly: Has anyone successfully converted this dynamic into a high-desire LTR after creating abundance (dating others, preselection, moving out)? What actually worked?
5. Any blind spots where I’m still supplicating or chasing validation?

When you're ready to stop being a doormat, consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his #book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

@adventurousman79

Plate abandoned trip, dread game ?

• talking to this chick she’s from another country we’ve met a few times

• I told her in a casual conversation I’m going overseas (to a country)

• she said initially omg take me with you

• I said ok , and then we planned a trip to a country 3 days together

• one day prior she bailed saying her flight got cancelled and can’t make it the transit is gonna cost her too much yap yap yap a really long paragraph . I was going to go anyway. When she bailed I stayed non reactive, and said no problem.

• I was going to this country anyway with or without her so it’s not a huge deal. In this country I’m having luck with lots of women.

• I was wondering if I upload a story to Instagram with other women will this employ effective dreadgame ? Or will this look try hard.

Neither you nor the location appealed to her enough to follow-through. These things happen. Maybe you're disappointed that she flaked on you after several days of planning, but those feelings should be mild at best. How would a queer idea as an instagram photo journal of you having fun change that though?

Focus on enjoying yourself treading upon foreign land and fondling foreign girls. Afterwards, study the book and recruit new chicks to take the flakes place in your inventory.

@Redpillpusher

Does Therapy Ever Work for Women

I've just recently ended a fling with a 24 F who has admittedly had long term mental health issues due to various prior events of trauma. We weren't serious, mainly because of the mental health issue (she took ADHD, sleeping, and I believe antidepressant drugs). This made me think of all the other females with mental health issues I dealt with and how they all fit the same profile: prior trauma, heavy anxiety (usually manifested as being relatively easy to bag), and, under normal circumstances paradoxically, seeing a therapist for years. Despite these long term relationships with their respective therapists, in every case the females are obviously stunted emotionally with the exception of being fully aware of their trauma induced mental state. Men, on the other hand (in my experience), are far more effective at using therapy to better their engagement with others. Why are these therapists getting paid if the only thing they are doing is explaining to the females why they're messed up mentally? Why is adaptation and correcting of antisocial behavior not a part of the therapy?

Unfortunately, degenerate modern healthcare regards it as more profitable to simply treat the symptoms of any illness so as to farm patients/customers for revenue than to administer any cure. That's why it's a waste of time to spend energy on psychologically damaged people.

When you're tired of dealing with kooks, study the book and revise your tactics accordingly.

@qzone

The Call of the Strange

I've been exclusive with a woman I had previously been involved with some years ago, this time for a few months. It wasn't long after ending things with the girl in my last post. It seemed like a really great idea at the time... you know how that goes...

She's an awesome woman for the most part: sex as much as I want, kinky, fun to spend time with, easy to get along with, great body, cute, smart, driven, good income. Her biggest issue is that she is very anxious, and will anxiety dump on me about relationship insecurities among other things; she had a rough childhood. But as with every woman I've dated (no matter how hot), the call of the strange eventually beckons. I commonly have exposure to a handful of 9's/10's (teachers, nurses, a social worker, etc.), all of whom I would bet money would go out for a drink if I asked. It wasn't like this years ago before I lifted, was less unattractive, and was decent at game.

I have the ambition to, in time, have children and start a family, and this is something she is very serious about as well. I'm late 20s, she is early/mid 20s, so it makes sense for her to be in a rush about it. But at the same time what guy doesn't fantasize about hot young nurses and teachers that you could possibly close? It almost seems like abundance, confidence, and consistent previous success have gotten me to the point where once the honeymoon phase wears off, the lack of scarcity has set in a sense of interchangeability to girls and removed risk of loss.

To answer my own question, the counterargument to that is that women are neither Madonna's nor whores, and so if you could see yourself in a shared life with one, kids in the picture, then go for it, warts and all. That is, if kids are the goal. They'll all have warts of some kind.

On the other hand, one could easily say, why not spin plates for longer? Sow your wild oats? My fear there is giving up on a girl with flaws I can deal with who has a lot going for her.

I fear this post comes off like a huge "should I?" and I do not mean it as such. I ask of the older, more experienced men here that may be able to offer wisdom further down the pipe, what have you learned in hindsight? The answer may be "figure out what you want," and if so, fair enough. Either way, thanks guys.

Whatever you ultimately decide, you don't need our permission or approval to do it. Study the book, take care of yourself, and pursue what you're after in your time with this chick.

If you decide that she's all you need in that area of your life, then educate yourselves on what's required to make it work, and try to lay down a solid foundation upon which the relationship can be built. If you're not certain you're ready to settle down, or still debating settling down at all, then be clear with her in that regard so your conscience is clear going forward.

@Intelligent-Sir-6319

How to handle bitch tried to manipulate me?

in the past, several times in the talking stage, I met some girls who tend to be manipulative, I'm aware of AWALT, all girls are manipulative, but I could say this was in a worse possible manipulation. I know people in this forums proly will assume it as a shit test and give me advice to do amused mastery or any that will pass her shit tests, but I guess there is a thin line between giving shit tests and manipulating me to do as she wanted (in this scenario, its more like obvious disrespect).

The pattern that I got was usually the girl act flirty / submissive in the first phase, once I try to escalate they tend to withdraw, then sometimes threw some random tantrums, personal insults to me (tried to belittle me), and from what I've seen, they assumed I already have a feeling for her after acted flirty, so they "expected" me to give her attention or ask whats wrong when they withdraw or doing any stupid tantrums, which I didn't do. Most of the times, I ignore it. At this point, I still assumed it as she was giving me a shit test. As I wasn't affected at all by her actions, I overheard her talking to her friend that she was frustrated that I did not give her "angry" reaction, and I assumed as a "win". Then unexpectedly, she was gaining allies with her friends, flipped the script like she was the victim. Yeah even her friends believed her, tried to sue me and spread the narrative. I know where this was possibly going, they could tell to my supervisor like she was the victim. At this point, my mind was telling me this is enough, and this is just obvious disrespect. I called her behavior, then she flipped the script again, and called me too sensitive which I ignored, and then reminded her again to not throw any stupid tantrums. After that, I rarely talked to her and kept it super formal and act like I was submissive beta (not doing what she wanted but more like not doing any teasing just keep it super formal), so she got bored and won't manipulate me again. Didn't do any teasing or what so ever after that scenario. It was a non formal work context 1 year ago, but I already left it.

I've seen a lot of women did this in work contexts so they just barely doing any work, and let the beta doing the work for her (which I fucking hate it). From what I've seen, TRP advised to game all women, but sometimes I have hard times differing shit tests and disrespect. Those 2 contexts are best responded as same as responding shit test, but at what costs? I dont think its worth it if I deal with women who tend to have any underlying issues that lead me to unwanted serious scenario like the above. Did I do the right thing by doing all of that?

Adding to that, from my observation, I assumed she has some NPD tendencies, which why she tried to manipulate me. I know, any behavior that called the NPD behavior just make things worse and they wont admit it. Thats why I ignore them (which also the proper response to those shitty behavior), just act like I was submissive to her even though I feel like beta shit sometimes, but after time, I feel like I wanted to do revenge toward that stupid bitch, feeling upset, feeling angry, but those kind of reactions if I were doing that, it's guaranteed to make things worse toward NPD. Relating to that, I have NPD mom, which made me a codependent beta man when I was high school, but called it out to my mom and lashed it all out after I realized my mom often did any NPD behavior since I was a child.

Due to that, whenever I met any NPD girls (which was a clear red flag, but it was unseen at first), my PTSD triggers me and I always want to lash them which is not proper response and they could immediately play the victim card, but if I didnt do anything that could attack the NPD, my mind always goes crazy telling me, "why didn't you lash at her so she could face the consequences??". I know a bit personal, but I just fucking hate it whenver it was work context, but there was a crazy bitch that plays this game and she knows she could flip the script anytime.

Is it just my ego trying to dominate her shitty behavior? I already knew if "ignore" was the proper answer to face NPD, but after I rarely meet the person again I always feel angry that I should have made her feel the consequences.

Consider reading How to Deal with Narcissists: Why They Became Evil, How They Think, and Strategies and Techniques to Take Control. Best of luck to ya.

@Gyver

Advice: Is a BSDM past a red flag or not a big deal?

Hi everyone,

I’d like some perspective on something that came up in early chats with someone I met on a dating app.

She’s 38, I’m divorced with kids (which I mentioned early as a possible deal breaker). She was open about some personal history too. After moving to another country when the Ukraine war started, she went psychotherapy and “starting a new life.” Through about a year she explored her sexuality, specifically BDSM, which she says she had been curious about since her youth.

According to her, she tried it, satisfied her curiosity, and now isn’t into it anymore. She described it as “living out something I was curious about” and says she’s moved on.

We’re still in the chatting stage and haven’t met yet.

My question is: Is this something that should be considered a red flag or a major reason for concern in terms of a future relationship? Or is it just part of someone’s past and not really relevant if she’s truly moved on?

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Your gut is telling you something's wrong and you rightly didn't ignore it. If you're indeed seeking someone with whom you might be able to form a relationship with, regardless of what this female you're talking about might say to the contrary, it probably won't be her.

However, that's putting the chicken before the egg as you've only interacted by means of chat. Regardless of whether you decide to date this female or not, I'd suggest that you keep approaching other females and not limit yourself to the ones who respond to you through online services. Being a divorced father isn't to my knowledge seen as a deal breaker for women, not like being a divorced mother is for most guys. If you've any doubts, ask the divorced guys on trp. They'll set you straight.

If you need more help, consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his #book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

@Most_Fly_1587

Extremely exhausted and burnt out. How to recover?

Here are some of the things going on in my life that have caused too much stress for me:

• My mom is v sick and she is also v old school so has lot of inertia for medicines etc which requires me having to convince her 5x more.

• I run a startup since 3 years, it hasn’t been doing v well. Considering shutting it down.

• My wife got v sick last two weeks because we had to go through abortion (unplanned)

• I have gained about 18kgs in last 3 years, that isn’t helping either

• my dad seems to be too egoistic when interacting with me, intentionally doing the opposite & triggering me

• I’ve been landlocked in a city with over 20 million people, pollution and no breathing space. I’m frustrated.

I need some ideas for what can help feel happier & get better.

That's definitely a rough situation. It reads like you could use some assistance or direction from those who've overcome similar situation, so I hope others who've overcome similar situations are willing to chime in with useful input.

If you need #exercise plans, just click the hashtag for some simple ones to consider I think there are a few books in there as well. Even considering something as simple as putting together a healthier diet and walking to clear your head should help. Stay strong.