@Typo-MAGAshiv Never worked out what YOLO meant. Never bothered to google it. I think sometimes kids like to have their own language and I leave them to it. The only thing I won't stand for is being called "Bro" by a daughter. I always reply "Sis" and they find it funny and annoying in equal measure. It would appear that "bro" is now gender neutral and this upsets the right wing pedant in me.

How voluntary are most MGTOW monks? This is the big question about celibacy. I think in most cases celibacy lies on intersecting spectra of willingness and discomfort. When talking about normal men (say 80-90%). We all want sex and we can all obtain it, its just a case of the price point and the terms and conditions.

But yes, I think you are right, its best not to pollute the word incel. In my case I find myself thinking that if I do become celibate (and I have given it some thought) it will not be an entirely happy situation but it will set me free to be myself after 25 years of being a provider and father. The price will probably be worth paying for some years at least.

I can't escape the fact that even on the rare occasions when I have been the closest thing that I can get to being a a smooth manly Chad and seducing the pants of women and making them hopelessly willing to give themselves up to me (yeah I said rare occasions), I have only actually been doing what they wanted me to do. There is a performative component to succeeding with women, even when you make it look easy. Who wants to be an actor all the time, playing the role of some woman's leading man instead of being himself?

@Kloi I feel that if I get out of this relationship -and our daughter is almost grown up now, so morally I don't feel won't be too selfish a wish soon- I won't be keen to sign on again.

I tell my friends I am going to be an incel when I grow up.

I am more and more convinced that real patriarchy can't exist in the present cultural climate. Its not dead its just dormant. You can't make decisions that may not be in her interest but which are in the overall family interest -that would be abuse- but you should make decisions that are not in your interest but are in the overall family interest. This is just too asymetrical.

Today a man just leads a woman in the dance that she wants to dance. I find myself saying bollocks to that. You have to interact with them to reproduce but after that, there has to be something more than curating her life.