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Message: We (as men) are not in control of when our turn is over. . But what should we actually do about this?

Factors: AWALT, social media, Tinder.

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As the TheLaughingRhino said to me: I see a strong pull away from the fundamental core of "It's Just Your Turn"

So let's address that.

We are slipping back into blue pill. It's understandable: men are loyal and we want to form strong bonds, strong families, procreate and build something. We start by being loyal and decent to women, and believing the best in them we aim to provide for them - expecting gratitude, appreciation, and fundamentally *building something together*.

A few years of maddening sexual frustration later we realise our mistake, hit the gym, care less about "trying to make it work with a good woman", and we focus on the problem of our sexual frustration. And it works: women like our hot body, our carefree attitude, our SUCCESS.

But quenching our sexual thirst is like drinking water: when you're not thirsty water no longer matters. Problem fixed, WHAT NEXT.

And that's when problems start: sadly what happens next is often using red pill ideas to fulfill bluepill ideas. "I am hot and I know women, therefore it is safe to collaborate with one and commit to her and try and build something together". Perhaps there is a thorough vetting procedure first....... usually there isn't..... As many of you know I have always been active on our help forums (especially https://www.forums.red/i/asktrp), and I often see "There were a few red flags, but only a few". Or worse.... "I have a thorough vetting procedure, which this girl failed, but I decided to go ahead anyway".

Red pill knowledge used to achieve blue pill goals.

What's the blue pill goal? Marriage, kids, family, legacy.

What's the TRP knowledge here? Understanding female nature.

You see the problem? It assumes that knowing female nature puts you in control. "I know she wants the hottest guy she can get, so if I am that hottest guy she will always want to be with me". But here's the flaw: you won't always be the hottest guy she can get. And you won't be the richest. You won't be the most carefree. And fundamentally you are *trying to make it work*, and she will sense that.

You can't escape alpha fucks / beta bucks: as soon as you commit to her, you've lost some of your appeal.

So we can't use red pill knowledge to achieve blue pill goals.

So what CAN we do?

- If you want to get laid and have sexual satisfaction it's pretty obvious (although not easy): get in great shape, and always have female options. Maybe you'll see one girl at a time, maybe twenty, but you make sure you always have options.

- Know the traps and the warning signs. "I'm not in the mood" and "I am not your whore" doesn't mean she's had a bad day, it means she doesn't find you attractive. She doesn't go to the club "for fun", she goes for attention and to explore her options. "We need to take a break" means "I want to fuck someone else". While this is purely defensive, it does help to cut your losses.

- Obviously don't get married or mix your finances with hers or let her be in anyway dependent on you. **I should make a top level post about exactly this**

But this isn't enough. What's the long term plan here? We can't spin plates until we're 50...

Well, let's break it down.

We've covered sex. Career is obvious: be as successful as you can, maintain control and independence.

But that still leaves the big two: long term partner and children. You want to settle down, have a loving caring long term partner. You want that comfort and security, I get that, we all do.

So let's look at options, because realistically long term partner and children and fairly intertwined:

Move to the heavenly state of somewhere-in-Asia where women truly respect men and you can't get out of the airport before a virgin is begging to suck your dick for the rest of your life. This just isn't feasible for most men, and isn't desirable for many more. I also don't believe it. Why not? Because AWALT. Women are not different just because you found some with a different culture. The second you lose control (eg marriage), is the same second she loses sexual interest. Sure sure, you have counter examples, I look forward to hearing you shout at me in the comments.

Option 2: *try to make it work* with a girl in your Western country. Move in together, arrange your finances extremely carefully, somehow maintain the option to leave. Accept that you're going to be paying for your kids and her lifestyle for the next twenty years. Hope that she doesn't do her research and find out that a domestic violence allegation will get you thrown out of your own house. Sure it might work... but it probably won't. Statistically it won't work. You can't stop her dreaming of better and worse: feeling entitled to better. The second she smells a profit and a hotter guy is the same second that your relationship is *over*. And as all the divorced guys I know keep telling me: "you never see it coming".

Option 3: Accept that the situation for you as a man is utterly fucked and do the best you can to mitigate. Get her to pay rent to clarify the legal position on her living with you, hope that your lawyer is better than the country you live in, sign a coparenting deal, get a legal contract drawn up and hope your country doesn't get it ripped up to benefit her.

I know none of these options are great, but let me tell you right now the worst possible solution: sleepwalking into a divorceraping by cohabiting, letting her become dependent, believing her when she says "you don't need to go to the gym all the time", and spending the rest of your life paying for kids that she prevents you from seeing out of spite.

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Other snippets to fit in: The main tenets of TRP are sufficiently mainstream now that people aren't shocked or intrigued by them. "Sure, AWALT, I get that, but I really like this one".

From Mr Rhino: I see more and more people drifting into the idea that they can somehow "game" their way around It's Just Your Turn. Women always pick. Men can improve their odds, but women choose. Men think they choose because they pursue. But when a woman wants you, she puts herself in your way to pursue her. Sex happens if she wants it.

From me: women are no more in control of their biology than you are. She's a master of PR, she'll lie and manipulate to make herself look amazing and you at fault, because this is what they do. And she can't help it. She's going to do it, just as certainly as the need to breathe. She might even hate herself for it and exonerate herself with "but I just can't help how I feel" - but know this: she WILL follow her biology. For a while that might be you. But it won't be forever.

Fit in more about social media, Tinder, cancel culture. But remember that this is an opportunity too: if everyone else is terrified of cancel culture, you can prevail.

The soft next means walking away for a day or two to show a girl you will not tolerate her behaviour. This only works if you don't life with her. If you live with her (or are married to her), this simply doesn't apply because it doesn't work.

Complaining, bargaining, shouting, explaining, logic and arguing are all useless counter-productive low-status behaviours that make women double down on the behaviour and do more of it because they like your low status behaviour: it makes them more secure in the relationship. The louder you shout and the more upset you get the more you CARE about the relationship. The more you NEED her. Women LOVE this. They dislike conflict, but love the security of seeing how hard you'll work with her to try and stop her doing some trivial (to her) behaviour. Giving her attention, showing how desperately you care, showing her how much you will try and make the relationship work. They love it..... but they don't respect you for it: it's killing attraction with every passing second.

Instead you do a soft next.

Concrete example: girl is nagging you, but it could be any other bad behaviour. Here's how this plays out, and I've done this many times so I know exactly how it works:

Girl nags.

MattyAnon: "You're nagging me, I don't like it. It needs to stop, and it needs to stop now."

Girl nags, because she has to test this boundary to see if I'm serious. She doesn't know what's coming.

MattyAnon: "I told you not to nag". Then I quietly and with no emotion grab my stuff and I walk out of the bar / the party / her house. It's vital that this is done emotionlessly, calmly. You express the problem, and you leave. You don't SAY you're leaving, you just go. If she doesn't see you leave then so much the better, eventually you'll get a text "Where are you? did you leave?" and you simply say "You nagged I left". THEN IGNORE. You don't want to get into explaining any more than that. Women love to try and negotiate around consequences and call you names and get a reaction. Ignore all of it.

The first time you start to do this, she'll beg for you not to leave when she sees what's happening.

Girl: "but but... I didn't know you were serious" (translation: I didn't know there were consequences) " ... please please I'm sorry I won't do it again".

MattyAnon: "um... I don't know.... I've had to ask you twice...."

Girl: "I'm really sorry, won't happen again".

MattyAnon: "well.... I guess.... um...... ok then, we'll see how it goes".

It's important not to be too easy a pushover on this. She has to FEEL that she almost lost you. And notice I don't fully commit to not leaving.

This whole scenario WILL play out again. And the second time you have to do this (for ANY reason) you don't accept any apologies, you walk out. She has to learn that she can't just talk you out of leaving when she fucks up. She has to learn that the consequence are real.

So the second time it happens: you silently pack up and you leave and you DO NOT ANSWER HER CALLS OR TEXTS. Let her stew for 48 hours. Then carry on like nothing has happened. She almost certainly won't give you shit about it, she'll be relieved you're back. If she nags, whines, complains or criticises you ...... then you do the same again. "Look girl, I don't need to hear this, you need to stop this nagging". She'll stop. If not she's on a 4 day time out. If that's not enough then it's time to move on to girls who know how to behave.

Another subtle point: she flakes on a date. You don't do anything AT THE TIME, because she clearly didn't want to show up. The time to make your complaint is when she next WANTS something, eg to meet you again. She flakes, you ignore, she tries to meet up again and you say "No.... you didn't show up last time, I'm not going to waste my time again". If she drops it, you drop her. If she persists you agree a date that is favourable to you: near your place, somewhere you are anyway, she picks you up, etc. There have to be consequences to her bad behaviour, and your absence is the best way to express your displeasure.

You inexperienced young bucks out there: do not accept offers of crazy monkey sex in exchange for forgiveness. Your high status behaviour will usually trigger a spike in attraction and need in her and she will usually try to use sex to talk you out of it. The sex will wait and it will be better once respect for you has increased. Don't accept sex as an apology or as a bargaining point. Just say "your bad behaviour is such a turn off" and walk out.

What to do for 2-4 days while she's stewing? Anything you fucking like, but especially looking around for better options and enjoying some peace and quiet away from her.